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Ship Reviews
Overall Rating
Based on 61 reviews
Submit your review Cruise reviews reflect the opinions of travel editors and cruisers/ readers and may not represent those of our company.
Nordam Southeast Asia and Indonesia Cruise
December
Pros: Good food, right sized ship, large stateroom, attendant crew
Cons: Understaffed in dining rooms, ship needed maintenance in numerous areas, too many redundant stops in Indonesia, not enough time spent in Thailand, Cambodia and Vietnam ports of call, no provision for money exchange on ship.
Recommended: Yes
Noordam is getting old. Needs updating to current standards of competitive ships. On one month cruise, there were numerous areas that required maintenance which were not attended to. Embarkation and debarkation were handled smoothly. Crew and staff were very helpful, upbeat and friendly. Entertainment on main stage was uninspired to poor. Small stage entertainment was good.
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Smaller ship older ship, but very comfotable
December
Pros: Consistently good food, great staff, lots of on board activities to keep you busy on sea days
Cons: The salt grinders in the main dining room rarely worked, I consistently had to ask for new salt shakers
Recommended: Yes
We loved our signature suite on the Noordam. It was very comfortable and worth the price since our cruise was a four week adventure. My husband quickly realized that a regular balcony room will no longer be acceptable for me! As always we enjoyed our stay on Holland America and with this last cruised we hit Mariner 4 star category! We look forward to our next cruise adventures with HAL.
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Alaskan Adventure
September
Pros: Customer service, quality of food, friendliness of entire Noordam staff and spacious/functional cabins
Cons: Absolutely none!
Recommended: Yes
The 3 day land based trip at the start was fabulous. Hotels were 4-5 star. The 9-1/2 hour train ride to embark the Noordam was so much fun. We were in the caboose of the McKinley Explorer. Food was delicious, service was top notch and our guide was so personable and made the long journey fly by. The Noordam was lovely, the entire staff could not have been nicer and the service was exemplary. Interior cabin was cozy and had more than enough room. The weather was surprisingly pleasant…55 degrees and very little rain. I was in Iceland for 10 days in October 2023 and Alaska is every bit as beautiful. A special shout out to Augustine and Grace, our bartenders at the Ocean Bar. So friendly and such fun to talk to. Also want to give special kudos to our cabin stewards Acep and Han. Our cabin was cleaned and tided twice a day and they remembered me by name every time we passed one another in the hallway. So very helpful and friendly. The entire experience was very memorable!
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Ship’s appearance
August
Pros: Very clean
Cons: Needs to be updated
Recommended: Yes
All staff members were extremely nice and helpful! The ship itself was very clean but felt it could use more updating ie carpet, wallpaper and curtains! The food for the most part was good but felt at times it was the same thing every day! Would surely recommend traveling to Alaska!
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Ship’s appearance
August
Pros: Very clean
Cons: Needs to be updated
Recommended: Yes
All staff members were extremely nice and helpful! The ship itself was very clean but felt it could use more updating ie carpet, wallpaper and curtains! The food for the most part was good but felt at times it was the same thing every day! Would surely recommend traveling to Alaska!
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Alaska
July
Pros: To many to list
Cons: None
Recommended: Yes
One of the best experiences we've had. Would do it again.
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Cruising Alaska
June
Pros: Staff
Cons: Communication
Recommended: Yes
The cruise portion of our trip could not have been better. An amazing place with a professional staff.
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Auckland to Vancouver
April
Pros: The crew, our dinner partners, coffee klatch with various crew members, and many other things.
Cons: Food portions. I would prefer an option for half or small portions.
Recommended: Yes
Our room stewards Dede and Dinda were ever attentive, seemed happy to address any question or need we might have. We knew they were busy with 31 other rooms, but if we asked a question, they immediately responded as if we were their only customer. Amazing! Our welcoming, smiley waiters Dawa and Ikram made every meal an occasion and fun. Daniel, fitness instructor, is the best. Gentle, kind, professional, knowledgeable, expert leadership. Carlo, perky crew member in the Dive Inn, was a sweet server who got very hamburger and fry order perfect (unlike some fast-food eateries on land). We enjoyed and appreciated the option to eat in the Dining Room for breakfast and lunch, refreshing for those who prefer not to balance dishes while searchong for a table in the Lido.
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My Cruise
December
Pros: Nice ship
Cons: Older ship showing signs of age
Recommended: Yes
The ship is very nicely maintained for its age. Once in a while an oder resembling a sewer like smell emanates from the toilet in the stateroom. It goes away with a few flushes.
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Consider the age demographics of this cruise line
October
Pros: Interesting itineraries
Cons: Caters to significantly elderly passengers
Recommended: No
The majority of passengers were elderly. Not just older, but significantly elderly. Significant number of passengers using mobility assist devices made tendering times excessively long in embarking and disembarking from tenders. Gangways onto ship extremely steep causing elderly to have difficulty in using them. On-board daily activities geared towards older passengers. Example: "adult coloring" and "paper folding" were offered daily. Evening entertainment very "amateur hour" with shows not appropriate for young children or people offended by semi-porno productions--several close to "X" rated Vegas style. This ship seemed to not handle rough seas as well as other ships I've been on in much rougher seas. I frequently felt I was going to be tossed out of bed with the ship rolling. Ship would travel very slowly (9 knots?) thus sea time between ports was excessive. Ship was very clean with friendly crew. As a solo passenger requesting a table for one expect a daily argument with the dining room maître di who will try his best to seat you at a table with other passengers. Food at all venues just okay, nothing outstanding.
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Enjoyable cruise and crew
September
Pros: Service
Cons: End of trip disembarking
Recommended: Yes
We really enjoyed the ship and crew- things were clean and the food was great! The only issue was the disembark fiasco on the last day- until then, I would have rated it very highly- unfortunately the lack of organization and ensuing crowds, w/o ANY direction from the crew really was awful- and was our last impression of an otherwise wonderful trip
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Staff
September
Pros: Excellent service, accommodating, knowledgeable
Cons: Not the Holland America I sailed on 8-10 years ago. There is a charge for certain high end foods which were previously included.
Recommended: Yes
Pinnacle staff is outstanding: Ljupcho, Elizabeth, Arjay, Thembi, Gede, Ganda….all of them are professionals. Smiles on their faces from the moment they see you to when you leave. They couldn’t do enough for you. I consider them friends. The cabin stewards, Irma and Ricky, were beyond helpful and very pleasant.
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Follow up
September
Pros: Everything was seamless, great staff.
Cons:
Recommended: Yes
This was our first cruise so we can’t compare it but we can’t imagine a better experience. Staff was professional, curious and efficient. The food was great at e every venue. Plenty of activities all day if you chose to participate, if not you are welcomed to hang out at the spa, gymnasium or pool.
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great time on Noordam
August
Pros: organized, friendly people, great food
Cons: none
Recommended: Yes
This was our first cruise so we had nothing to compare to, but we were very impressed with every aspect of our trip on Noordam. I suppose after 150 years, Holland America has perfected the organization required to manage nearly 2000 passengers. We were provided detailed information for every activity - embarkation, excursions, debarkation - so we always knew what to expect. Every member of the crew was friendly, and went out of their way to make us feel welcome. They were happy to tell their story - where they were from and how long they had worked for HAL. Our room stewards Andi & Salim were outstanding! We ate most meals at the buffet. There was a great variety for all tastes. We had one dinner in the main dining room, and one at the Pinnacle Grill. The steaks were cooked perfectly.
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Wonderful Ship and Service
August
Pros: Service and organization
Cons:
Recommended: Yes
Margaret and Geo, Guest Services Associates in the Neptune Lounge were outstanding. They were very professional, friendly and helpful. We really appreciated all their assistance!
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Alaska trip
July
Pros: Process was run well and very efficiently..
Cons: Would have liked the ship to get closer to the Hubbard Glacier for viewing.
Recommended: Yes
Really enjoyed the entire trip.
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Overall experience
July
Pros: Beginning with travel agent odet. He did a great job had a lot of patience dealing with 4 woman going to Alaska. Holland America noordam was fabulous can’t say enough about the crew. They were 5 star. No cons to report.
Cons: Have no cons everything was 5 star.
Recommended: Yes
Will definitely tell friends about travel land
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Inside Passage Cruise July 2023
July
Pros: Everything!! The rooms were amazing, food was great, overall decor and presentation phenomenal! The staff though-that was the icing on the cake! This was by far the best staff we have experienced.
Cons: Nothing!
Recommended: Yes
We loved every part of this trip so much we hated leaving! Widhi was the kindest, hardworking steward. He knew everyone’s name and greeted us as if we had known each other for years and in the most professional way! Hazel-out omelette chef-and friend from the south (her from the south Philippines and us from south US) was always smiling and happy ready to provide us whatever we needed. Roldan was helpful, courteous, friendly, funny, professional, and hard working. Our dining staff was spot on! The captain didn’t seem like a distant voice but instead a part of the experience! Every single person we encountered just made our trip even more phenomenal!!
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ALASKAN ADVENTURE
July
Pros: Staff very friendly and efficient. Ship was very cleans and maintained. Excursions were great.
Cons: Ship seemed very crowded. Dress code in dining room not followed. Entertainment was not that good.
Recommended: Yes
This was our 17th HAL cruise and for some reason the ship seemed extremely crowded and it was a much rowdier crowd. There was no regard for the dress code with many people in the dining room for dinner in jeans, t-shirts and ball caps even on dressy nights. The staff and crew were very helpful and very friendly. We miss not having priority boarding for 4 star Mariners.
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Alaska
June
Pros: Excellent selection of ports…all slightly different. Staff very attentive and personable. Ship right size, in immaculate condition.
Cons: On rare occasions, staff overbearing. App and internet took several days to figure out.
Recommended: Yes
Enjoyable cruise.
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New zealand
February
Pros: Staff was great
Cons: More entertainment
Recommended: Yes
For me I spent my time at pool and casino so I was ok with what I had to do.
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Holland
March
Pros: Excellent staff, nicely appointed, easy to navigate
Cons: Extra charges for food upgrades. Something I wasn't expecting
Recommended: Yes
Cabin attendants Didi & Vendi went over & above to make us comfortable. They fulfilled our every wish.
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Sydney-Auckland
February
Pros: Superior service, friendly staff, excellent entertainment, delicious food. Cleanliness
Cons: Older ship, so some areas are smaller than in newer ships.
Recommended: Yes
Best staff on any previous cruise. Efficient, friendly, accommodating. Met all needs and handled changes smoothly. Gave a feeling of family. Great food.
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Noordam
November
Pros: Fun cruise, staff and food excellent
Cons: Getting the Niro Virus
Recommended: Yes
Fun crew, staff very nice, food excellent Stateroom very clean and comfortable Entertainment in main area sometimes disappointing
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Glacier Bay,Riverboat trip, Haines,Seward,Juneau,Ketchikan and all in between
July
Pros: the waiters, :Batara and Aditya and room personnel Yudi and Mat
Cons: The weather.
Recommended: Yes
The dining room personnel was outstanding. Ours were Batara and Aditya. Learned our names right away and never forgot them The whole dining room was worked efficiently.. our waiters were so helpful. I felt the dining room was VERY well trained. I told the person in charge how I felt about his working with them. Our room was cared for by Yudi and Mat. Yudi was outstanding and helpful. and could greet us from down the hall,too. This was an exciting but restful cruise. Congratulations to whoever made it so great. Even with the lousy weather!
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Best trip EVER!
June
Pros: The staff was amazing. The food was delicious. We lacked for nothing on this trip. In talking to other more seasoned travelers who could compare one cruise over another this one was the top choice over and over.
Cons: This cruise is not a party barge. It is very much laid back and relaxed. The entertainment was not geared to a younger crowed but still there was plenty to enjoy.
Recommended: No
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Relaxing
June
Pros: Dining room; staff, service, clean ship, on board activities
Cons: Buffet; cost of 1 excursion did not meet expectations ??
Recommended: Yes
Very impressed with cleanliness of ship and excellent service. I would highly recommend this ship!
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Great Ship in need of a tune-up
March
Pros: The crew and staff were excellent
Cons: The ship is in dire need of a technology upgrade.
Recommended: Yes
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Wonderful First Cruise
October
Pros: Staff courtesy and responsiveness. Art Program with Sam. Hawaiian Ambassadors. Bar events with Fritz.
Cons:
Recommended: Yes
Thoroughly enjoyed the six days on Noordam from Vancouver to Honolulu. Beginning to plan next cruise.
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Alaska Inside Passage - September 2018
September
Pros: Excellent staff, great selection of food, good facilities and cabins comfortable
Cons: Problem with toilet in cabin, entertainment not that great
Recommended: Yes
We had a really good time on the Noordam. The staff were so friendly. The cabins were spacious and kept very clean. Our balcony was great to sit out and enjoy the beautiful scenery of the inside passage. Food in both restaurants was excellent with a great variety of options. The standard of entertainment varied quite a lot with some excellent shows and some not so great. The ports we visited Juneau, Skagway and Ketichan were lovely scenic ports and the there was a good variety of shopping available. We also booked excursions via Alaska Shore Experts and they were great especially the whale watching from Juneau and the Yukon train and bus journey from Skagway, the scenery was absolutely amazing. We did not get to see Glacier Bay due to a medical emergency on board which meant the ship had to be diverted but we were really impressed with the care given to our fellow passenger who had to be transferred off the boat
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First Cruise
June
Pros: Wonderful Experience
Cons:
Recommended: Yes
Great staff on ship, made you feel like a guest
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Alaska explorer
May
Pros: Itinerary, luggage service, food, smooth transition from place to place
Cons: Hotels can be overbooked, 13 days of going non-stop
Recommended: Yes
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Great service, ports, and experience!
May
Pros: The service, dining in the vista dining room, the ports, cleanliness, and stateroom.
Cons: Some room service items, some of the buffet items, and the price of alcohol.
Recommended: Yes
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Holland America is the best!
November
Pros: Food stewards, room stewards, the Turkish bath
Cons: No drawers in our stateroom
Recommended: Yes
We thoroughly enjoyed our cruise! It was everything we expected. Our food stewards were exceptional. Our room stewards helped us with birthday and anniversary surprises! The BBC program was awesome! The Tasman Sea was rough, but we took it is stride as part of our adventure! Security staff have embarkation and disembarkation down to a science at every port! We didn’t have to wait for anything, it even tenders! Food is great, beds are comfy, staff are awesome!!
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cruise
November
Pros: great service
Cons: food not up to level of past cruises
Recommended: No
good cruise but nothing special
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Australia/new Zealand
October
Pros: Personnel were exceptional
Cons: Food and activities on board were lacking
Recommended: No
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Fabulous Cruise
August
Pros: Excellent dining, Wonderful land and train excursions.
Cons: Wine was mostly foreign and overpriced. West mark in Anchorage is in bad need of repair.
Recommended: Yes
Overall this was a fabulous cruise. Some of the problems that I experienced were from my own lack of knowledge. HAL had changed the names of some of the venues on the ship, but not the signs. This was a little confusing. The cruise line made every effort to make the trip enjoyable, especially glacier bay.
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Sailing smoothly in Alaska's waters
August
Pros: Tasteful food; great variety of meals; health conscious
Cons:
Recommended: Yes
This is a well run ship. There are lots of things to do and the excursions are interesting. The crew is very courteous, always ready to help.
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Southbound Alaska Cruise 2017
July
Pros: Embarkation/Disembarkation, Staff(room steward, restaurants), Food quality/diversity, The Dive(taco bar), Cleanliness, Spa/gym, Room Service, BB Kings, The Alaska film set to Music by the on board musicians.
Cons: Entertainment in main lounge was fair. In our Ocean view room the TV was outdated, the staff serving beverages were sometimes dry(not friendly) if you were ordering anything other than alcohol
Recommended: No
This Cruise was an excellent value. The ship still looked to be in great shape even though it is last to get the "class" make-over. Our cabin's TV was outdated but most other areas still looked classy and nice. The overall attitude on this Cruise was super from staff to other guests. When we visited the Lido market buffet, we always found something tasty, nutritious and good variety each day. The main dining room did a great job as well. We had OPEN dining and had no problems getting sat in a nice location, quickly. The staff was pleasant and the food tasted really good, I tried many plates offered. We also ate at Canaletto and Pinnacle Grill, one night each. I can't say enough of how wonderful all of what we ordered tasted and how much food we got, so much quantity and flavor! Again Super! "BB Kings" entertainment was really good, however the HAL singer/dancers entertainment was fair, a little cheesy? The Alaskan Film along with Live music by HAL musicians was fantastic! We also caught two, "out on theater", movies playing, enjoyed it. We had a couple small things in our cabin that needed HAL's attention and they jumped right on it and fixed it. My room steward was always around but not in our face, he did great and was friendly. We submitted one load of laundry to our room steward and I had my shoes shined, which he did both very timely and a great job. We also thought the gym/spa was good, almost like home. Easy to keep up with our daily routine.
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Alaska Cruise
July
Pros: Excellent food and service. Thoroughly enjoyed sailing with Holland America Cruise.
Cons: Would have enjoyed evangelical Bible studies.
Recommended: Yes
1. There was sewer smell many days on Deck 4. 2. Comedian's "off color" remarks in his set did not fit the family friendly atmosphere.
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Alaska Cruise
May
Pros: Enjoyed the trip with comfort and leisure
Cons: A bit too crowded during breakfast and lunch times
Recommended: Yes
Enjoyed the voyage and sight-seeing at ports of call. The scenic view of the inside passage was great on our return trip
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Great Australian/New Zealand Cruise
January
Pros: Price, service, excursions
Cons:
Recommended: Yes
We thoroughly enjoyed our experience. Would recommend HAL to our friends and family. Thank you!
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Fabulous adventure in Alaska
August
Pros: Easy to learn the layout of the ship. Not overwhelming at all.
Cons: None.
Recommended: Yes
We were pleasantly surprised by the ship and our room. Very nice. The staff was extremely helpful and very courteous. We would highly recommend the cruise line and the ship to anyone.
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Our first great experience with Holland
July
Pros: Clean environment, frequent communication, good food, super service by all
Cons: Malfunction caused us to miss excursion
Recommended: Yes
This as our very first cruise. We were apprehensive in many ways. The Alaska cruise by Holland was a fantastic time and certainly opened our eyes to the potential of more cruises in our future travel plans. Common ation throughout the trip was frequent, clear, and on track giving us everything we needed to enjoy every facet. I
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Hosted sailing July 10, 2016, Vancouver to Seward
July
Pros: Front desk was extremely helpful and so very patient!!
Cons: In Lido hard to find a cleared table. Appeared under stafffed.
Recommended: No
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First Time Cruisers
June
Pros:
Cons:
Recommended: Yes
This was our first cruise so I really don't have anything to compare it to. This being our first time it was every thing we could hope for.
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awesome staff
July
Pros: staff was very attentive
Cons: few activities for kids
Recommended: Yes
truly enjoyable cruise, had a great time and appreciated the view from the spacious balcony compared to other cruise lines. the breakfast in bed was awesome
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Mrs.
May
Pros: The trip was more than we expected.
Cons: Only the red eye flight from Vancouver to new York
Recommended: Yes
The land, Cruise and Vancouver trip was extremely well planned and everything went so smooth. One best part was that we did not have to worry about our luggage from the beginning to the vend. The cruise was one of the best I been before. I absolutely love it and enjoy.
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Noordam Cruise through Alaska
May
Pros: Like always, the ship was clean and the staff friendly
Cons: Disembarkation created confusion for some
Recommended: Yes
By and large, everything went smoothly, the food was excellent and the entertainment great. Since we had to leave the ship as early as possible in order to catch our flight, we opted to take our luggage ourselves and proceeded toward the exit which was already filled with people who were supposed to be in their cabins. Unfortunately, there was no officer or crew member in sight . Finally, some crew members appeared and we were able to leave the ship after lugging our suite cases to an other level which originally was not on the program.
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Alaska Cruise
May
Pros: The state room was amazing and our location was perfect
Cons: The food was the same and got a bit tiring
Recommended: Yes
It was definately a trip worth taking. The staff was very attentive and they were always smiling! My only complaint is that the food was the same every day, even in the restaurants.
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HA Noordam Critic
February
Pros: Stateroom service, Atria bar service (Leo Bon--superb)
Cons: Dining room service, food
Recommended: Yes
Dining room staff needs additional training. Food presentation better than quality of food. Entertainment in Vista Lounge not up to what it used to be.
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Australia & New Zealand Cruise
January
Pros: Reasonable number of guests, unlike other big cruise ships
Cons: Embarkation time unreasonably long & not well organized
Recommended: Yes
Guests should have pre-assigned times to register for embarkation based on previously submitted preferred times. There was chaos at the port terminal when almost everyone arrived at the same time to embark!
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Excellent Service with Noordam
August
Pros: Steward were awesome and Lido staff were great too.
Cons: Unusual vibrations in our veranda from ship's engines.
Recommended: Yes
Easy getting luggage on disembarkation. Really enjoyed the Lido cafeteria and dining room. Meeting new people. Really enjoyed the entertainment. Dislike paying for internet service.
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Overall Experience
January
Pros: Service, Staterooms, Cleanliness, Friendliness of Staff, Expertise,
Cons: None
Recommended: Yes
I was dismayed to see some passengers dressed inappropriately for the formal evenings to the extent that some were in shorts, tee shirts and flip flops. Though these people were not dining in the main dining room or specialty restaurants, they still looked out of place and disrespectful of fellow passengers. They should have at the very least be dressed in "smart casual". If they want to be dressed in this manner, then travel on Carnival!!
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Great Ship
December
Pros: Wonderful Food and Cabin Service
Cons: Spa rooms not properly functioning
Recommended: Yes
Overall a great ship. The Specialty restaurants were particularly good. Crew treated us very well. Nothing not to like
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Great ship
December
Pros: Wonderful service food and activities
Cons: Sauna and steam rooms not hot
Recommended: Yes
Great food especially in specialty restaurants. Very good entertainment
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Excellent ship - excellent cruise
December
Pros: Food very good; service staff was fantastic; ship exceptionally clean; older ship feeling even though ship is only 8 years old; perfect size ship - not too big and not too small; Half Moon Cay was fantastic - one of the best beaches I've been to in the Caribbean and barbeque was also very good.
Cons: Dinner menu could have had more options and not so much gourmet style in every item.
Recommended: Yes
Only comment had nothing to do with me other than I was with my friends, one of which required a wheelchair to get on the ship, and the amount of time it took to get a wheelchair was well over an hour; closer to 1-1/2 hours. They seemed to be short of staff and wheelchairs and way to many people requiring wheelchairs. This was very surprising for Holland America since they are known to cater to a much older crowd. Surprisingly this cruise had a large variety of ages, which was great - ages ranging from the 40's through the 90's and far more in the 50's and 60's ages.
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11 days on the Noordam
October
Pros: Crew, Food, Ports, Excursions, Great beds - very comfy.
Cons: none come to mind
Recommended: No
The crew was always smiling and happy to greet you. They learned your name in the dining room or at the Lido buffet on the first day and never forgot who you were. The ship was just the right size for exploration and for easily navigating. The casino was well run for a casino at sea. Tournaments were available for players. Excursions were great and plentiful. I would recommend, the ship, the crew, the ports and the food on this sailing.
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Cruise: Rome-Venice July 12-23
July
Pros: Almost all staff members aboard were extremely helpful and gracious, with two exceptions.The food was varied and good.The ship is in good condition.Our stateroom with verandah was particularly nice, due to the added view from the corner, unlike other verandahs.
Cons: Bathrooom tile surrounding the shower was in disrepair. Needs attention prior to next sailing!Land tours a bit too pricy. The staff members checking our IDs at the exit/re-entry post were not welcoming and need to be retrained! Som ecomnfusion regarding the baggage storage after the trip. P{perhaps a map could be prepared by the ship to help locate the exact spot after disembarking.
Recommended: Yes
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11 day Mediterranean explorer discovery
June
Pros:
Cons:
Recommended: Yes
Holland America Noordam is a great ship. My family had a superb cruise. The food was great, the service was excellent.There were great activitiest 3 year old and my 3 young grandkids enjoyed. The shore excursions were great.
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Barcelona to Rome 4/4/14
April
Pros: A more upscale flavor than Norwegian, especially for the formal nights. Passengers dress up much more, which is nice, Who wants to wear a suit and tie and sit next to a bonehead in shorts and a t shirt. Saw more tuxes then we've seen in a long time. They also have a daily Catholic mass and weekly services for other faiths.
Cons: Entertainment lacking, both in quality and quantity. Given the demographics of the passengers, it should have changed accordingly once it repositioned. Food was good, but nothing special. Only one real specialty restaurant. The second shared space with the buffet. Strange for a ship this size and clientel. Food good but nothing special but they did an exceptional job in accomodating a special dietary need.
Recommended: Yes
This was our first time with HAL after a couple of similar trips w/Norwegian. Our experience was that they are very comparable. The Noordam has been around awhile but was exceptionally well maintained. I think they are a bit more expensive than Norwegian for a comparable cruise and while we couldn't see anything that was significantly better than Norwegian, we would certainly consider them for a future trip
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Vacations by Susan
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